Arshak Banuchyan Արշակ Բանուչյան

You know, for example, Igor Muradyan... Of course, we talked to people in the square, we explained that this is impossible, this “Lenin, Partia [Gorbochov]”. I laughed at it, I said it’s impossible, it won’t happen. But it was not even a precaution. We received a letter in Matenadaran, was it from Lithuania? I am sure other institutes have also received similar letters. The party structures there, in Lithuania, Estonia, which were positioned, wrote to us from there saying that “Can’t you join the Azerbaijanis, teach those Karabakhites a good lesson.” In other words, let them stay quiet. They had no idea. The world also probably did not know. First of all, it was necessary to [present] all of that from multiple angles... The world should have known why these people went to the streets. So, there was a huge amount of work to be done with the press as well. And not only in the Soviet press, which was closed to us. Those labels that were attached to the people every evening on “Vremya” or “Pravda” newspaper- separatists, I don't know what in every newspaper, those labels increased the number of people in the square the next day. This was the state of mind of the people, to be intolerant towards that insult, that lie, and that falsehood. In other words, there was an impression that the Communist Party of the Soviet Union itself was also adding gasoline to the fire with its behavior. But they, for example, Silva Kaputikyan, when they came from Moscow, they wanted people to go home... And those people were also committed to that... Well, it is clear that they forced His Holiness to come and speak. They also scared him at that time. Of course, the people opposed him, but His Holiness was an old man. He was also scared. He would not want the gathered people to shed blood or I don't know what. That’s why he came and told people to go home, if I’m not mistaken, he even said that he would curse them, I don’t know, he said such things. But the composition of the “Karabakh” committee was changed, because the predecessors exhausted themselves. And the predecessors not only exhausted themselves, but... For example, Sarukhanyan, I think he was from Echmiadzin, an actor, it was such a big blow, he presented himself as originally from Karabakh. It is true that he performed in the Karabakh theater as an actor, but one must be honest with the people. A small deviation, a bit of faking, and the things you say, which are 90 percent true, will become... In short, you can’t cheat. That composition of the “Karabakh” committee completely exhausted itself. I don’t want to say harsh things, because there was the impression that some intellectuals and scientists who came to the [scene] cooperating with the KGB, would do something pro-Armenian. There was something in people’s minds as if they were using a huge organization of a huge state, which the state held in its grip, instead of you using it, it would use [you]... Will you use it or will it use you? I mean, I'm not saying that they weren’t patriotic, but it was naive to have such an attitude and try to curb that movement and bring it to something with the instructions from above. And the people remained without a leader for a moment. Only for a moment. For a very short period. “Karabakh” committee took over the stage very quickly. I say “took over” in quotation marks, because people started listening to those who were honest with them directly from the stage. And they were really honest; they analyzed every danger with the people. Many would remember, for example, the analyses of Vano Siradeghyan. The rallies always started with the analysis of the world press and news. There were so-called self-controllers among the people, you know, for example, I remember that they sent drunken people to break the rally; some even said that there were drugs in the pocket and so on. It happened once that the agent provocateur, who had entered the public square and was going to make an incitement, the people all at once formed a chain and formed a big circle, leaving him in the middle, and invited the militia to take him. It was very interesting. Our people were changing. In fact, they say that nothing was lost during the rallies: someone would lose money, a wallet, they would announce from the microphone, they would give it back. It was a very different atmosphere.

Well, in the classical sense, it was not an organization, the “Goyapaykar”, with a charter or a leader. Roughly speaking, there were 7 members of the board or organizing committee, who took that responsibility upon themselves. Then there was that thing. Let’s say there was no such thing among us, to elect someone as president and put him under attack, because it was still the Soviet Union. And there was no idea of membership and so on. You know, now look at the Karabakh movement... Apparently, the Karabakh movement absorbed even the most active participants of the “Goypaykar” into itself. Many of us found ourselves in different things and even in polar opposites. Now, in that sense, I cannot say that we had a common decision to be united in all issues or not, but each of us had our own motivation. For example, for me specifically, I can say that I considered it a path to independence, generally leading to cohesion and unity. You know, maybe I hated parties in general. And until 2008, I was not in any political party. I was ready to help anyone, if it is useful for something specific, for our country. In other words, ideology per se was not important for me. For example, at the time I would say during such conversations, that it was not important for me if there would be slavery in Armenia or it would be a feudal state, for me Armenia’s existence was important. Then let it find its democracy through evolution or development, and not import it from the outside. This was my thinking. But of course I understand that it can also... because democracy must... you must become its parent, it should not be something injected. This thought was there at the time. There was also something else, after independence... I jump from one thing to another, because I want to find the trajectory of my thinking. In the [19]90, when we were already on the threshold of the independence referendum, I remember one day we were having coffee with the guys, and we were talking. I said something that was becoming funny, but I remember it until now, it is stuck in my brain. We are not a generation that lived at the time of independence. Maybe we should be the teachers of independence, not the leaders. Like that... they laughed, of course, but until now there is that conviction that it was necessary to educate the people, to bring them to that independence, and after getting the independence, to continue explaining to the people what that independence is. Because even now, you know, maybe it’s an eternal topic, we should always talk so as people understand what the security, so to speak self-sufficiency, self-existence of their families depend on. In different situations, a person should understand what his family's self-existence, so to speak, self-sufficiency, security depends on. Because absolute independence certainly does not exist. Even the biggest powers, the superpowers, are not independent in that sense.

The meeting was held in the pioneer palace of Shengavit. I was the moderator of that session. Quite a lot of people had already gathered. By the way, I must say that during the same period, before that, we had already opened a branch in Abovyan, and if I am not mistaken, probably in December, we had organized the concert of Ruben Hakhverdyan and Meschyan in the Palace of Culture. It was something, because together with the Abovyan boys, we had [distributed] flyers in the city...it wasn’t flyers, but posters, that were announcements that there would be a concert. We posted them on the walls, and the Komsomol ripped them off after us. We had to disseminate the posters like flyers in “Sirius” and other factories. The concert took place. But the interesting thing was that during those few months a youth movement was initiated, and the number of its members kept increasing, the number of people was always increasing. For example, at that time Movses Gyorgisyan and others from the National United Party met with us. They even wanted to disseminate the newspaper “Independence”, we said, “No! We have barely found a hall, they will not allow it anymore, wait for a different time.” Anyway, it is not that we were against the idea, but we were a bit more cautious, we thought that we can't do it with such quakes, we have to... At least I think so. Maybe if you had invited someone else from “Goyapaykar” he would have a different opinion. But that was my thinking at the time, that you don't need to go to confrontation, because... not because we were afraid for ourselves, 5 or 6 years ago we were ready to die for that idea, but because that consciousness was already there. That romanticism, I say, was already gone, because that martyrdom was not only a martyrdom for an idea, it was also a moment to keep people afraid for some time. Do you understand what I’m saying? We had to get rid of that psychology. The others, as I say, [were] different... That breakthrough from romanticism to becoming a little more realistic happened in me at that period, in the [19]87 when I returned from the army, and in the army as well. So, probably on February 16, we had a session in the pioneer palace in Shengavit, and the next day we already had a rally. Abovyan guys had organized it very well. They picked up the right time, that is, we chose the right time together, at 3-4 p.m., when the workers came out from “Sirius”, there was a huge crowd of people who went to the bus station, either those who came to work in those big factories from the villages of the region, or the ones who went for city buses, which also operated from there. So when we started the rally, not only the bus station was full of people, but also the work of the bus station was paralyzed, it just became a big problem. We didn’t even think that it was possible to do something like that. Then, the militia (back then it was not police, it was militia) came, people from the District Committee came, they convinced us to go to a more open place. After a couple of hours, we were somehow convinced, one could say, we went to the Palace of Culture, where the rally took place, the actual rally. The Secretary of the District Committee even brought a loudspeaker for the microphone to show how kind he was. We had a little quarrel there. He wanted us to enter the hall, we did not want to enter the hall. That's how the day passed. We ended the rally by saying that the next day the rally should be held near the biochemical factory. The number of people near the biochemical factory was 3-4 times higher than the previous day. I am saying 3-4 times higher, but there were really too many. The entire street was closed, the road leading to Byureghavan. The gates of the factory were closed, some were on the cars, some were on the fences. There was a moment when our technical capacity was not sufficient to talk to the masses. Provocation was easy. I say again, I am telling only my memories. It was not evident that even if we had spoken about something with the management, we would achieve something, they were not the decision makers, they were not the ones to decide to close it or not... We reached a situation when a solution had to be found. This is the realism I refer to, when you can take the right direction in a situation. And in that situation it was very easy to make a provocation. After the provocation, people could get hurt, and that entire thing we had organized would become a failure. That's why that decision was made. The first decision was as follows: to call journalists, because you are in front of that mass for the first time, you are responsible for them. But when someone went after the journalists, I came to Yerevan by taxi to inform journalists, because at that time there was no cell phone or anything, either you had to call somewhere with a phone, or you had no hope that he would do his job. I had learned from the guys of “Garun” editorial where they were: they called the editorial office of “Garun”. I don’t remember now who called. And they said that they are going down through Avan already. And the second decision was this: since this situation has arisen, there is no solution, let’s walk to Yerevan, then, to the headquarters of the Central Committee, I don’t know, we would decide on the way, but at least we would not allow a provocation. And during the march it would be easy to control the situation. In this way, Abovyan marched in a huge mass to the Opera Square, and from there to the Government Building. Already in the government building, I have a difficulty to recall if they had accepted our delegates or not.

“Goyapaykar” was a student group. It will be difficult for me to remember all the names. The core group would be Vahan Ishkhanyan, Ashot Aslibekyan, Tigran Paskevichyan, Vache Kalashyan. There were other guys like that who... The youth union “Goyapaykar” was founded, one can say it was an organization. And our goal back then was the following: since there is an occasion, let’s speak about whatever is possible to speak about, what will not endanger the security of our people, will not do anything to our people, will not lead to cataclysms. In other words, not to go to confrontation at once, say we want independence and get broken, then the people will get something on the edge of breaking. We went that path, the ecological one. In mid-October there was a rally in the Opera Square. We were meeting with specialists, by the way. Let’s say, uncovering the white pages of history, about the language, I don't know, there were a thousand and one areas that we were responsible for. But, for example, when we had a gathering related to ecology, we mainly invited Hakob Sanasaryan and Karine Danielyan as speakers, and they came and explained what was happening. At that time really... But if you remember in [19]87, there was always heavy pollution in the evenings in the Shengavit district, because something was released from Nairit. I don’t know what it was. Now let’s say I’d have difficulty remembering what Karine Danielyan or Hakob Sanasaryan told us about these things. But as a result of those things, we made a dossier, made copies and distributed those to increase people’s civic consciousness, so to speak. And that was the only path for a person to not be indifferent about his language, his culture, his history, the health of his generations, etc., and to present himself. The first rally took place in October. Then, starting from December, I think there was a pioneer palace in the Shengavit district, it had big and small halls, we were holding meetings in one of the halls, where barely 100-200 people could sit. I think we had 1 or 2 meetings there.

In [19]84, if I'm not mistaken, after graduating from the school, I applied to the department of Oriental Studies. I wanted to study Turkish, and so on. But in 1984 there was already a group at the university, probably even earlier... As far as I remember, I can go back to that year, because in 1982 I was acquainted with the students. There was no name to it in the [19]84, but the guys [were there], for example, the same... I remembered Aslibekyan Ashot now, Vahan Ishkhanyan, later also Tigran Paskevichyan, Vache Kalashyan and other guys... Armen... I don't remember the last name now, he is a songwriter, he sings with the guitar, right? We gathered in the university auditoriums and also read literature that was banned then, and passed it from hand to hand. I had such good friends. It was the end of the [19]84, if I’m not mistaken, they caught a Lebanese guy named Raffi at the airport, whom I certainly didn’t know. In [19]84 I... in short, I was called to the KGB. All the guys, everyone, because he [the guy from Lebanon] was caught with anti-Soviet literature. Then the guys from the university told me that they were taken to the KGB twice, and were told things at the KGB, they told me that they had done something and that I should be careful, they said that I was a kid, I did not understand. I remember the investigator asking me, who was at Aram Manukyan’s grave, who visited, and I shrugged my shoulders and said that I hadn’t even attended the funeral. But in reality I had not gone there. I knew that he was provoking me, as if I had a photo, they already knew, they were trying me, etc. In other words, after giving such answers in 2 interviews... Then Mikael, if I’m not mistaken, it was Mikael, said to me that I had to do something to run away. And I volunteered for the army in 1985. I went to the army voluntarily, and in half a year the Особый отдел [Special Department], i.e. the KGB of the army, came after me, and started interrogating me already in the army. It was already there when I read in “Trud” [newspaper] that Vahan Ishkhanyan and several other guys were expelled from the university in Armenia. And it was already [19]85.

It was ecological, purely ecological. The adverse impact of the biochemical factory on people’s health, etc., that is, it was the question of closing the factory. There was yet another issue that they were discussing at the time. They wanted to build large gas wells near Abovyan, to build storage facilities, which was again very dangerous, because there would be huge wells near the sand pit, the explosion of which could have been huge... there could be no such thing near the city. In our opinion or in the opinion of ecologists, it was extremely dangerous. The same was true for Nairit. In fact, there were those dangers. In fact, only those scientific studies, those scientists who talked about it... After all, I am not an expert in that field, I tend to trust the experts. And those specialists explained to us that such questions existed. There were many other things. For example, they even came to us once and told us that potatoes from Chernobyl were being sold in the markets. There were a thousand and one things. However, raising the ecological problem, environmental protection, cleanliness, etc., that was not our main goal, it was a means for raising people’s consciousness. That was my feeling, my thinking at the time. After that, if a person is no longer indifferent to his surroundings, to his city, he will not be indifferent to his identity, his culture, that is, to take this path so that people wake up. But, as I say, probably there were so many such cells in those families, or in small professional groups or friend groups, that they immediately came out already during the Karabakh movement. And of course the Sumgait pogroms also contributed to this.

You know, the [19]82, I say, was a period of romanticism. There was something, if I say it now, it was probably taken very seriously at that time, very։ no one thought that the Soviet Union would collapse. And it was not a matter of any nation, any state, any animosity; you only had a dream of restoring your identity, your national statehood. But there was no hope that it would be possible in 1982. So there was a slogan we used to say... Now I am not saying it in praise, I would even now criticize that martyr psychology, [the slogan] that the blood on the altar of freedom should not clot, that is, the previous generations who fought and so on... that although we won’t see that independence, we won’t see that freedom, we need to keep it fresh so that the memory remains in people, in the next generations. This is how I understand it, for example, all those boys had the same psychology, but none of us imagined that we could see that independence.

I am sure that in the ‘80s, many people gathered and talked in their narrow circles. In 1988 so many people came out. It seemed to you that you were doing something with 10 people only, but in fact there were dozens of such in different places. In other words, we could not understand how come that, for example, the samizdat flies from our hands and there is still demand. That’s how it went. I think it was those winds, I don’t know, I wouldn’t say that it was related to perestroika, but perestroika allowed it to open up at once. Although, with caution, because... You see, I left the army in 1987, in May of 1987. Of course, I met my friends, the guys, right away. And I think already in September, in September-October, the “Goyapaykar” union was created with the same guys: Vahan Ishkhanyan, Tigran Paskevichyan, Ashot Aslibekyan, Vache Kalashyan, etc. There were other people too. And what was our goal? We were gathering, discussing issues and problems of our interest, because there were people with different professional backgrounds. It was true that we were mostly philologists, but there were also chemists, physicists, etc. Well, the [19]85 was already perestroika time. If we were little... You know, Vardan Harutyunyan wrote this book about dissidents․ Now I don't remember the title well․ He has something there, doesn’t he, about the dissidents of the last years, who at the end of the day remained not fully formed, because they were not arrested, tried, or exiled. Because already in [19]85... We were probably among the last dissidents who were already absorbed into the Karabakh movement or into the post-perestroika movements, which became a nationwide movement. Perhaps it can be said that way.

Well, when you approached a certain age, you were taken there. First, you had to study at the Komsomol office... We had a Komsomol office. They gave us some pamphlets that we had to absorb, I don't know, things like when the congresses took place, how was that one, the history of the Bolsheviks. Then you had to go to the district office to take the exam. It was in the building of the district committee, that is, there was an office of the Komsomol in that building. We had to go there. You would go in and they would ask you 2-3 questions like an exam. If you answered correctly it would be over, and they gave you the ticket, you had to pay the membership fee, that’s it. If you were a bit active, then you should have participated in those Komsomol activities. I was generally active in school. But I said that I didn’t want to be a Komsomol, I don’t want to. They were asking me why, and I said I didn’t know, I didn’t understand, I didn’t want to be one. But that answer of mine was a kind of avoidance to not say that I did not accept the communist ideology in general or something like that. I was just saying that, for example, a person should be an active citizen, why was it necessary to be a Komsomol? Why was it necessary for everyone to have a membership document? I remember one time... This girl many times... The secretary of the Komsomol talked to me many times to convince me. I was telling her, ok, I would join the Komsomol if you would give me a document that I am a human being. In other words, why is it necessary? I laughed at them. But she, probably to not cast a shadow on the school, or, I don’t know, some said because they liked me, they didn’t want to do anything to harm me. Then I found out that I am not only the secretary of the Komsomol, but that they also were paying my membership fee.

What did we do? So, we came to the class early, our class, we came early, a black poster... When you enter Khrimyan Hayrik school, back then it was the school of 26 commissars, so there is a huge, huge picture of Stepan Shahumyan right in front of the entrance, because it was named after 26 commissars... Well, Stepan Shahumyan and 26 commissars, there was such a painting. We covered that painting with something black, put a record player and turned on Lusine Zakaryan, lit a candle, and whoever entered the school, her or his mood had already changed, and the purpose of coming to school was changed. Thus, we decided instead of not going to school, go to school and disrupt the class. Then they came, I don't know, from different places to convince us to go to the class. After an hour, they forced us, the children, to go to the classrooms. They took us too. We entered the classroom. Then when the teacher came in, we stood up and did not sit down anymore. Like that.

You know, mostly children inclined to humanities, came to the school with an Armenian studies track. It may sound a bit strange. It might sound a bit odd, but when you look at it from today’s distance, it was a shame to have an Armenian studies school in Armenia, because all schools should have been Armenian. There should have been Armenian schools and there should not be an issue with Armenian studies. But at that time, if you remember, our speech, our language was very weak. That huge number of Russian words, not being able to speak literary Armenian. When you went to the market to buy cucumbers, they looked at you in surprise. People were using words like окошка, I don't know, форточка, such things. It was something else, also for the language... I understand that it was necessary to have an exemplary school where Armenian is normal, it is taught normally. I suppose that it was also one of the preconditions for creating something like that, where they would demonstrate that it is possible to study Grabar and folklore at school. Because such kinds of subjects were not taught in other public schools. And in our school, I studied folklore, I studied history of Armenian architecture, history of architecture in general. And we also studied embroidery, carpet weaving, I don't know, such things. And there were things that we were overcoming. Our class was certainly different from other classes in the same school: we were kind of like the ugly duckling. But that was the first year. That first year was overcome and, like other classes, we made friends with all the classes. In other words, it was nothing. Then at school we went on a big strike on April 24, because... Brezhnev died that year. And during Brezhnev's time [because of his funeral], all factories were closed, schools were closed for us. Also Shiraz... I think Shiraz died on the fortieth day after Brezhnev’s death. We also went on strike for Shiraz, because why should everything be closed for Brezhnev, but not for Shiraz? Do you understand? There was such a thing.

You know, we had a neighbor on the 2nd floor who had an antique book of Psalms. Well, his grandfather had it, uncle Bakhshi, who was blind, and there were those memories that during the Armenian-Turkish [Azerbaijani] clashes... so, they were also from Karhat. I don't remember if they were from Karhat or the nearby villages. And in that book there was a huge section of pages cut with a blade or a sword. So, while saving the book, he was injured and later became blind. Or there was this grandma in the next entrance, who had lost her fingers, they had cut them off with a sword. From great grandmothers, grandfathers... Although they didn't like to tell us. But that book of Psalms he was not giving to anyone, but he gave it to me. Back then I was reading that book without understanding what I was reading. I loved reading the book of Psalms aloud, but it was Grabar [old Armenian] for the first time ever. From that time, I’ve developed a love for reading in Grabar.

I remember first being taken to the KGB in the [19]82. There was another group of friends in 1982, and it was already different, mature, we had read many things, we had a lot of information and in our minds it was more... it was a romantic period, we were thinking not about a united Armenia, but about independence, Armenia's independence, etc. And it was in November 1982, we posted leaflets on the building of the Council of Ministers, I don't know, on the buildings of various ministries. The police were after us. We also put up a big poster in the republic square with something like this: “Let Kemalist Turkey Get Lost, Long Live United Armenia!” Like that. Then the KGB found us. Because we were minors, they didn’t do much to us, just a disciplinary preaching, like that. However, there was also something else. In the 9th grade, I had a folklore lecturer named Hovhannes Tagukyan. In general, I had very good lecturers. You know, Ashot Bleyan was the organizer of that school, the educational organizer. Then there was the “Vernatun” organized by the teachers, and those students who studied well sometimes participated in “Vernatun”, communicated with various artists invited to speak, and to give lectures on various topics. We used to go on camping trips a lot with the school. At that age, that is, in those years, I had been even in Javakhk, Artsakh, and Vayots Dzor. There was even this thing back then: ‘Arshak went on a hike at the down’, they said something like that, because my one foot was out all the time, to take my backpack and go to the churches, I don't know, to walk village by village on foot. Once we even did this thing with the boys; we moved from Yeghegnadzor and walked the entire region on foot. And do you know how it was? Let's say where we ran out of food, we went down to the village and offered to do something... what should we do? Mow the grass, cut the wood, anything... But as a rule, they would give us [food] without work, they would fill the entire backpack with food, with cheese, I don't know what. Like that.

Me and my friends from the street were very naughty boys. The city was just being built. Barely 20-30 buildings were built. Now when you look at the city of Abovyan, it is a quite spacious, big city, but [back then] it was enough to pass 4 buildings, and there were already fields. One of the first things that I remember was climbing Mount Hatis with 3-4 friends. I was probably in 4th grade, 4th or 5th grade. And we got lost because it got very dark, and we couldn’t find the way back. When we got home, the police were looking for us. We were taught a lesson at home. The first attempt was like this; and we could not climb to the top. Then a year later... it became a tradition, I climbed Mount Hatis every year. And to win my mother's heart, I always brought snowdrops, we would always go in the spring. Once, in the 5th grade, 5-6th grade, we climbed to the top of Hatis and decided that next we should climb Aragats, then Ararat, because there was a very good view, both mountains could be seen. Then we came home and learned that Ararat was not ours. And so the quest began. Then something else happened. In the 6th grade, Arshaluys, a repatriate Iranian Armenian, i.e. from Iran, and Ogsen, a repatriate from Beirut, joined our class. Ogsen was a hero for us because he was wounded during the events of Beirut and had a scar on his leg from a machine gun fire. We learned many things from him, let's say about ASALA, etc., in the 6th grade. Together with the same Ogsen and another friend, Ashot, we created a secret organization: ArOgAsh: Arshak, Ogsen, Ashot. I don't know, these were childhood romantic things.

We have heard stories, many things from them, but there were forbidden topics that they did not like to speak about. For example, my maternal grandfather, it was very late when he recalled the persecutions of the [19]37, how his fellow villagers were shot at their houses, etc. Those things tormented him. I remember that on his deathbed in 1988, when I convinced him to remove Stalin's picture from the wall, he did not take it down because he said: “Andranik looks a bit like him, with the same mustache, let’s change the picture.” The fear was still in him. But when he was assured that it was possible, he asked for the picture from his bed and said to me, “Give me that picture,” and tore Stalin’s picture into small pieces, and we posted Andranik’s picture.