Josip Križmanić

- …try to escape to Italy. - Yes, this. Can you tell us this story? When was it, why…? - Yes. That happened 1948. In March. The 20th. That day I had … in Pazin, how can I say… we got invitation to join the army. And we run away. There was.. was at least 10 of us. Only, one of us was a spy, from Žminj. A bastard(beep??), he lead us across, to take us on the other side, took from us so much money and everything else, and then let the guards know where to come and …. catch us. - And that was it. - Where was it? - It was … they catch us close to Buzet. - Close to Buzet? - Yes. -When you need to cross in Italiy? Where … close to Buzet? - A … Prodani. - Village Prodani? - There. - Mhm. And there you supposed to cross in Sloveni, wright? - Yes, yes. - And there they caught you? - Yes. - Who took you? - Partizans. - Partizans? It was 1948. - O yes. - Ok. They caught you? How many of you? - About 5 of us. Some of them escaped. - Why did you decide to run away? - Not to go in the army. - Not to go in the army? - Yes. - And it was …. -Yes, as we were Italians…. Italian citizens. - Mhm, mhm.. And they caught you near Buzet? - Yes. - Mhm. Where did they take you after? - From Buzet to Zagreb to disciplinary battalion where I spend two years. Two years. In Zagreb, like in the army. - And before that did they took you to the prison? - Yes… - Where? - In Buzet and in Pazin we were in prison. - Why? - From Pazin … we tried to escape. So they… done this, there we were. I wouldn´t …. They shouldn´t…. I “served” 17 months of camp. Italian army, lost a father, and yet they force me to go to the army. And told them I will go! First told them; if I can I will cross over! - Can you say; from village Prodani went to forest? - Yes. - And this man from Žminj told you he know the way? - He lead people and told them they crossed the border, and then all … and they killed them all there! 11 of them. - This happened … that time? - O yes. - When you went? - No, that was other time. Yes, other time. They followed us. The same people. And … where then… Završje! - In Završje? - Have you heard about … Završje? - Yes, yes. - There are 11 of my friends buried. Because they killed them… as poor people wanted to go for a better life and there they shoot them, a man from Žminj took them there, and told them “ Now you are across the border” and then there they….

"Did you see your father in the camp?" "I saw him for 17 days. We weren’t allowed to socialize. They took him 200 km away. Later, some workmen who worked with him arrived. Half of them died. They went to work in a tunnel where the water dripped on them. Humidity, 12 hours day and night. The food was poor. If they caught somebody sleeping, they would beat him up. It was so horrible back there. They finished it. My father died there, and also one neighbour of mine. It was the Natzwailer camp."

-" Can´t remember. Can´t remember the name of this… - How did you … get in touch with him? - In one village was one…one house close to village, in direction of Borut was one man. He meet, a young man. Then he came to him, and told him he wish to go, so his father, a poor man, sold a pair of oxen.. for 18 quintals, took the money, and this devil of man lead them right to the point where they have been caught and killed. Told them to take with them all money and gold they have, and then took them to be killed. Do not know how this man was called, he was from Žminj. - So, he has done this very often? Picking up people and in arrangement with police… - O yes…yes.. and there send them to die. - But, do they have to killed them? Why do they have to killed them? Why do they….? - They didn´t have to kill them… but … they did, yes. For sure it was a police from Pazin and secret service. Here in Pazin. - So, you have been lucky, you have been just prisoned? - Yes. - How look that moment when… police came, what you have been thinking at that moment? - O… what was thinking… caught us and that was it. And.. o others running away… here from Istria, people were going. A lot of people were gone away. A lot of them from Istria! Who use to live here. I.. we… have a sister …. she run from Rijeka. Sister is in Trieste. She went to Trieste from Rijeka. Other sister and brother escape too, they… he is in Australia, and sisters live together. They are in Trieste. All four of them … run away from home. I… we all wanted to go. I made a mistake, I tell you the truth, did wrong, if I just could take my mother to Trieste when my sister was there, then mother would get Italian… pension, from father as he died in Germany with Italian citizenship. She never got anything. Then my sister… work in Trieste, found a lawyer, I will tell you the truth, how it was, and sister with lawyer start the process of getting the money… as father was Italian citizen and he died there. Everything was good, only when money supposed to be given to us, they told my sister that Germany paid to Italy, and Italy paid to Yugoslavia. And ours… “eat” this money, so we didn´t got anything."

„ And than they gave me a document. It saved my life. They didn't force me to work. They infected me with mosquitos and injections. People were put into cold water. There were all kinds of experiments conducted on people because the Germans wanted to test their army's endurance while on the fronts.“ - How did you bear through this? – It wasn't easy. We were in high fever for twenty days, and than we drunk quinine, if you've heard about it? Even now when I think of the taste, It makes me want to throw up. It's very bitter. It lowers down the fever. Later on, a man got high fever again.... And the document was like a peronal ID card. Whenever they would put some clothes on me to get transported, I would show them the document and they would leave me alone. I didn't work there, we were maltreated, but I wasn't forced to hard work....and maybe it saved my life.“

"Yes, yes … he took the money, a devil. - And he take you to Prodani? - O yes… and there they caught us. - Caught you in the forest or how? - Directly on the road they catch me. - On the road? - Yes. - Out of the village Prodani…? - First… maybe five hundred meters before Prodani. And one was with me from Novaki, and he escape. He escape and tried to cross the border next time, and he cross the border. He did. Went to Trieste. And his two brothers went, and uncle … and one of them was… was..(took them with me), yes. And their father and sister were thrown into the pit. She was married to, his sister, for one Italian brigadier who had a daughter… and him they thrown into the pit. He was a good man. At home they spoke Italian, who will know… who decide, with no special reason, and say this person has to die. There was… no order. - Is someone from your … companions alive? From this 5 that you tried to escape? - A wait… think not.. hardly hardly that … all of them are dead. No, if I think no. - In Buzet, how long have you been in prison? - Was not there… one or two days, but from there we were taken to Pazin. - In Pazin, where was a prison? - Down above the Pit. - Above the Pit? - You know where the Pit is in Pazin? - Yes, yes, yes, yes. - There was a prison. - Inside in the castle? - Yes. - There was a prison? - Yes. Yes, there was this prison. - What happened when came out from Pazin prison? - Then they took us to Zagreb. - Took you right away to Zagreb? - Yes… handcuffs on hands and lead us to the station. And then, took us to Zagreb. To discipline battalion in Vrapče. ( knew it well??) - Discipline battalion in Vrapče? - Yes. - This means, in Vrapče you were in… barrack? - Yes. Those were disc…´48., after, yes… - Can you tell me please, mr. Križmanić, did you wear a uniform? - Yes. Military. Two years we were… we have… we have a wooden rifle. We were like all… other armies. Only wooden bombs, wooden rifles and … that is it. - And that was only because you decide to escape? - Yes. - Have they been rough to you? - Did not behave nice, no… to one officer I said: “Why don´t you consider the time for me being in Italian army?” He said: It was an army… yes, but.. that was the enemy army.” ”You were the enemy to him and I was to you.”